Thermal issues

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  • #1883
    Pseudologer
    Member

    I have a grblshield running two 1.7A nema 17 motors on a 12v computer PSU. I have the little copper heatsinks on and I have a small ducted fan forcing air between the arduino and the shield.

    When I adjust the current to the point that the motors move accurately and reliably (under no load, just sitting on the table) the chips get very hot and thermal shutdown cuts in after about 40 seconds. If I let the system cool, then reduce the current trimpot by about 15deg, they no longer move but the chips run cool.

    The motors will produce strong torque and move accurately, but only on a current setting that rapidly overheats the system. What could be causing this?

    Thanks for your time 🙂

    #1884
    alden
    Member

    Sorry to hear about the issue. This is not usual. Some questions:
    – What version of grbl are you running and what are your grbl settings?
    – What is the manufacturer and model of the stepper and do you have spec sheets or a link?
    – When you are doing the test are you running one axes, 2 or all?
    – Does the thermal behavior happen on all axes or is it more pronounced on any of X, Y or Z?
    – Do you have a 24 volt supply available to you?
    – (edited) What commands are you running through grbl for the movement = G0 X1000 Y1000 Z1000 or something like that?
    – (edited) One last thing, when you turn the board over do you see solder in the 0.080″ holes under the chips?

    Thanks

    — Alden

    #1885
    Pseudologer
    Member

    Hey Alden, thanks for the swift response.

    -I’m using grbl 0.7d according to the text that appears when I open a com port
    -The stepper I’m using is this one
    http://www.mindkits.co.nz/store/movement/stepper-motor-58-oz-in-400-steps-rev
    and its datasheet:
    http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/datasheets/Robotics/42BYGHM809.PDF
    -I’ve tried the tests on all three axis individually, it seems to have no effect
    -I don’t have a 24v supply to test it on, but I am looking to get one in the next month or so
    -Currently I’m running a simple hand coded script that draws a 28.6 square (ie g0 x0 y0; g0 x28.6; g0 y28.6; etc) but i also did G1 of the same script and g0/g1 x1000 y1000 and other tests. I also have the same issues with the grbl settings at defaults, the shapeoko setup (first grbl setup i found on google) and my settings.
    -I see solder in the holes but three of the holes (both of Z’s, one of Y’s holes) have tiny pin holes in the solder blobs, I can’t tell how deep they are but there still seems to be a lot of solder there and X also has thermal issues and doesn’t have these pin prick holes.

    Update:
    I’ve had some other weird issues in the last couple of days:
    -Initially thermal cut out was 30-45degrees from the maximum trimpot travel, and 45-60deg from max for the lowest setting that the motors would turn (with no torque). Max torque (measured by hand so it’s a rough guess) occurred around the thermal cut point. Today I switched it on, and on all three axis those points had moved. The thermal cut point is now 160deg from max, max torque at 180 deg. This is the same on all axis. The wiring setup hasn’t changed at all (everything, including the arduino/shield is fixed to a sheet of wood, with all connections done with terminal blocks screwed into the wood), i tested every connection with a multimeter (before and after the weird shift), and the PSU is still putting out 11.98v.
    On the upside the max torque position now no longer trips thermal shutdown, but the chips do get too hot to touch. It still moves precisely too.

    If you like I can post pics of the pin prick holes and my setup

    SIDE NOTE: Is there a command/is the grblshield capable of locking an axis?

    #1886
    alden
    Member

    I like that the problem is fixed / I don’t like that it just magically just fixed itself. I’m sure you wracking your brain trying to figure out what’s different. Let me know if this recurs. The only thing I can think of that would affect all axes equally is the input reference voltage for the current setting pots. The reference voltage going into the pots is the 5v that comes off the Arduino. If that’s not stable there could be all kinds of havoc.

    The chips will get that hot when you run them at close to their max. That’s just the way they are. I think you will find this on all the small stepper driver chips. This is why we offer heatsinks, and suggest fan cooling. However, with the motors you are using you should not need to run them that close to the limit to get max torque, or at least sufficient torque. So you might try backing off the current in a real application – i.e. cutting – and see if you get adequate torque.

    I do not know of a command that is capable of locking an axis. What are you trying to do? I’m not sure I understand. In TinyG you can set axis modes. You can disable an axis or inhibit it. A disable takes the axis out of the calculations – i.e. removes it like it never exists. An inhibit incorporates the axis into the motion calculations but doesn’t run it. This is good for Z kill. There is no command to just freeze and axis by applying power but no motion – if that’s what you are looking for.

    — Alden

    #1887
    Pseudologer
    Member

    A speedy reply once again 🙂
    Yeah, I’m pretty confused about what’s going on, but the reference voltage thing might be a source of variance: the arduino is powered by USB that’s connected to a laptop… it’s possible that when charging the voltage from the USB ports may be different (though theoretically the arduino should stabilise that to 5v). The laptop in question is permanently plugged in though and I would assume that when the battery is full the laptop’s battery management circuitry would trickle charge and not be spikey… but that’s just a guess from me.

    As for running close to max power: The odd thing is the thermal shutdown point moved from approx 85% trimpot travel to approx 25% trimpot travel which is a huge jump and the max torque point moved pretty similarly. I’ll multimeter the voltages coming down the USB and from the arduino and make a note of it, if the shield changes behaviour i’ll check again and see if the voltages have moved.

    As it is for now I’ve removed the black thermal adhesive on the copper heatsinks and glued them down with a thermaltake two part thermal epoxy, and I might get a friend to mill a tiny waterblock that i’ll expoxy to the underside of the shield.

    Oh and as for locking an axis i mentioned before: yeah, i vaguely remember an old stepper driver I used to use would energise the motor at 70% current to lock it in place while not being actively moved which would be pretty handy for my current application (a gimbal-style turret with an RGB laser array for light painting in photography) – currently I get a little movement in other axis due to inertia and gyroscopic effects if i spin only one axis, but I can work around it.

    EDIT: Oh and I might try powering the arduino with the computer PSU that’s powering the shield, at least then I’ll get a known stable voltage.

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