problem with NEMA23 steppers 0.9deg

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  • November 30, 2014 at 9:46 am #7058
    nccwarp9
    Member

    I have TinyG with 4 NEMA23 9deg steppers. 24/13A power supply.
    TinyG was first setup for 1.8deg and it worked but everything was halved.
    Went to tgFX and changed setting for motors to 0.9 deg and x and y work but Z axis is problematic.
    Current setting for travel per revolution are set for 35.956 and 1.5 respectively.

    I use Chillipepper to send gcode and motors are extremely loud and rattle alot when moving but move correct distance. Z axis is not responding, stepper hums but does not move.

    If I select individual line or send console command to move Z axis it works as intended but is not responding when sending gcode.

    Im stumped.
    Anyone have similar setup or known what the hell is going on ?

    November 30, 2014 at 10:20 am #7059
    cmcgrath5035
    Moderator

    Hmmm, your description of sound is similar to what I experienced a while back, what I described as ‘hammering’ in the motor.
    IIRC, the issue was one of micro-step pulse width.
    In my case, they were NEMA 17s 1.8 degree.

    If you are not running tinyG FW 438.02, upgrade and try it again.

    Are your current pots turned up?

    If you are there already, perhaps post a $$ parameter dump

    November 30, 2014 at 11:07 am #7060
    cmcgrath5035
    Moderator

    Hmm, I missed this comment

    If I select individual line or send console command to move Z axis it works as intended but is not responding when sending gcode.

    Try lowering your Z speed (F setting) and or lower Z jerk if increasing current does not work.
    Compare your Gcode F setting to what you have set as the command line max velocity.

    Bottom line – tinyG might be trying to ramp velocity faster than the available torque (current x pulsewidth) can achieve.

    November 30, 2014 at 11:15 am #7061
    nccwarp9
    Member

    [fb] firmware build 435.10

    [fv] firmware version 0.97

    [hp] hardware platform 1.00

    [hv] hardware version 8.00

    [id] TinyG ID 2U2971-YTV

    [ja] junction acceleration 2000000 mm

    [ct] chordal tolerance 0.010 mm

    [sl] soft limit enable 0

    [st] switch type 1 [0=NO,1=NC]

    [mt] motor idle timeout 2.00 Sec

    [ej] enable json mode 0 [0=text,1=JSON]

    [jv] json verbosity 3 [0=silent,1=footer,2=messages,3=configs,4=linenum,5=verbose]

    [js] json serialize style 1 [0=relaxed,1=strict]

    [tv] text verbosity 0 [0=silent,1=verbose]

    [qv] queue report verbosity 2 [0=off,1=single,2=triple]

    [sv] status report verbosity 1 [0=off,1=filtered,2=verbose]

    [si] status interval 100 ms

    [ec] expand LF to CRLF on TX 0 [0=off,1=on]

    [ee] enable echo 0 [0=off,1=on]

    [ex] enable flow control 2 [0=off,1=XON/XOFF, 2=RTS/CTS]

    [baud] USB baud rate 5 [1=9600,2=19200,3=38400,4=57600,5=115200,6=230400]

    [net] network mode 0 [0=master]

    [gpl] default gcode plane 0 [0=G17,1=G18,2=G19]

    [gun] default gcode units mode 1 [0=G20,1=G21]

    [gco] default gcode coord system 1 [1-6 (G54-G59)]

    [gpa] default gcode path control 2 [0=G61,1=G61.1,2=G64]

    [gdi] default gcode distance mode 0 [0=G90,1=G91]

    [1ma] m1 map to axis 1 [0=X,1=Y,2=Z…]

    [1sa] m1 step angle 0.900 deg

    [1tr] m1 travel per revolution 35.9560 mm

    [1mi] m1 microsteps 8 [1,2,4,8]

    [1po] m1 polarity 0 [0=normal,1=reverse]

    [1pm] m1 power management 1 [0=disabled,1=always on,2=in cycle,3=when moving]

    [2ma] m2 map to axis 1 [0=X,1=Y,2=Z…]

    [2sa] m2 step angle 0.900 deg

    [2tr] m2 travel per revolution 35.9560 mm

    [2mi] m2 microsteps 8 [1,2,4,8]

    [2po] m2 polarity 0 [0=normal,1=reverse]

    [2pm] m2 power management 1 [0=disabled,1=always on,2=in cycle,3=when moving]

    [3ma] m3 map to axis 2 [0=X,1=Y,2=Z…]

    [3sa] m3 step angle 0.900 deg

    [3tr] m3 travel per revolution 1.2500 mm

    [3mi] m3 microsteps 2 [1,2,4,8]

    [3po] m3 polarity 0 [0=normal,1=reverse]

    [3pm] m3 power management 1 [0=disabled,1=always on,2=in cycle,3=when moving]

    [4ma] m4 map to axis 0 [0=X,1=Y,2=Z…]

    [4sa] m4 step angle 0.900 deg

    [4tr] m4 travel per revolution 35.9560 mm

    [4mi] m4 microsteps 8 [1,2,4,8]

    [4po] m4 polarity 0 [0=normal,1=reverse]

    [4pm] m4 power management 1 [0=disabled,1=always on,2=in cycle,3=when moving]

    [xam] x axis mode 1 [standard]

    [xvm] x velocity maximum 400 mm/min

    [xfr] x feedrate maximum 1600 mm/min

    [xtn] x travel minimum 0.000 mm

    [xtm] x travel maximum 298.000 mm

    [xjm] x jerk maximum 5000 mm/min^3 * 1 million

    [xjh] x jerk homing 10000 mm/min^3 * 1 million

    [xjd] x junction deviation 0.0500 mm (larger is faster)

    [xsn] x switch min 2 [0=off,1=homing,2=limit,3=limit+homing]

    [xsx] x switch max 0 [0=off,1=homing,2=limit,3=limit+homing]

    [xsv] x search velocity -1000 mm/min

    [xlv] x latch velocity 100 mm/min

    [xlb] x latch backoff 2.000 mm

    [xzb] x zero backoff 1.000 mm

    [yam] y axis mode 1 [standard]

    [yvm] y velocity maximum 1600 mm/min

    [yfr] y feedrate maximum 1600 mm/min

    [ytn] y travel minimum 0.000 mm

    [ytm] y travel maximum 301.000 mm

    [yjm] y jerk maximum 5000 mm/min^3 * 1 million

    [yjh] y jerk homing 10000 mm/min^3 * 1 million

    [yjd] y junction deviation 0.0500 mm (larger is faster)

    [ysn] y switch min 2 [0=off,1=homing,2=limit,3=limit+homing]

    [ysx] y switch max 0 [0=off,1=homing,2=limit,3=limit+homing]

    [ysv] y search velocity -1000 mm/min

    [ylv] y latch velocity 100 mm/min

    [ylb] y latch backoff 2.000 mm

    [yzb] y zero backoff 1.000 mm

    [zam] z axis mode 1 [standard]

    [zvm] z velocity maximum 1200 mm/min

    [zfr] z feedrate maximum 1200 mm/min

    [ztn] z travel minimum 0.000 mm

    [ztm] z travel maximum 54.000 mm

    [zjm] z jerk maximum 50 mm/min^3 * 1 million

    [zjh] z jerk homing 1000 mm/min^3 * 1 million

    [zjd] z junction deviation 0.0500 mm (larger is faster)

    [zsn] z switch min 2 [0=off,1=homing,2=limit,3=limit+homing]

    [zsx] z switch max 1 [0=off,1=homing,2=limit,3=limit+homing]

    [zsv] z search velocity 400 mm/min

    [zlv] z latch velocity 100 mm/min

    [zlb] z latch backoff 2.000 mm

    [zzb] z zero backoff 1.000 mm

    [aam] a axis mode 1 [standard]

    [avm] a velocity maximum 3600 deg/min

    [afr] a feedrate maximum 3600 deg/min

    [atn] a travel minimum 400.000 deg

    [atm] a travel maximum -1.000 deg

    [ajm] a jerk maximum 20 deg/min^3 * 1 million

    [ajh] a jerk homing 24000 deg/min^3 * 1 million

    [ajd] a junction deviation 0.0500 deg (larger is faster)

    [ara] a radius value 1.0000 deg

    [asn] a switch min 1 [0=off,1=homing,2=limit,3=limit+homing]

    [asx] a switch max 0 [0=off,1=homing,2=limit,3=limit+homing]

    [asv] a search velocity 6000 deg/min

    [alv] a latch velocity 1000 deg/min

    [alb] a latch backoff 5.000 deg

    [azb] a zero backoff 2.000 deg

    [bam] b axis mode 0 [disabled]

    [bvm] b velocity maximum 3600 deg/min

    [bfr] b feedrate maximum 3600 deg/min

    [btn] b travel minimum -1.000 deg

    [btm] b travel maximum -1.000 deg

    [bjm] b jerk maximum 20 deg/min^3 * 1 million

    [bjd] b junction deviation 0.0500 deg (larger is faster)

    [bra] b radius value 1.0000 deg

    [cam] c axis mode 0 [disabled]

    [cvm] c velocity maximum 3600 deg/min

    [cfr] c feedrate maximum 3600 deg/min

    [ctn] c travel minimum -1.000 deg

    [ctm] c travel maximum -1.000 deg

    [cjm] c jerk maximum 20 deg/min^3 * 1 million

    [cjd] c junction deviation 0.0500 deg (larger is faster)

    [cra] c radius value 1.0000 deg

    [p1frq] pwm frequency 100 Hz

    [p1csl] pwm cw speed lo 1000 RPM

    [p1csh] pwm cw speed hi 2000 RPM

    [p1cpl] pwm cw phase lo 0.125 [0..1]

    [p1cph] pwm cw phase hi 0.200 [0..1]

    [p1wsl] pwm ccw speed lo 1000 RPM

    [p1wsh] pwm ccw speed hi 2000 RPM

    [p1wpl] pwm ccw phase lo 0.125 [0..1]

    [p1wph] pwm ccw phase hi 0.200 [0..1]

    [p1pof] pwm phase off 0.100 [0..1]

    [g54x] g54 x offset 0.000 mm

    [g54y] g54 y offset 0.000 mm

    [g54z] g54 z offset 0.000 mm

    [g54a] g54 a offset 0.000 deg

    [g54b] g54 b offset 0.000 deg

    [g54c] g54 c offset 0.000 deg

    [g55x] g55 x offset 110.000 mm

    [g55y] g55 y offset 110.000 mm

    [g55z] g55 z offset 0.000 mm

    [g55a] g55 a offset 0.000 deg

    [g55b] g55 b offset 0.000 deg

    [g55c] g55 c offset 0.000 deg

    [g56x] g56 x offset 110.000 mm

    [g56y] g56 y offset 20.000 mm

    [g56z] g56 z offset -10.000 mm

    [g56a] g56 a offset 0.000 deg

    [g56b] g56 b offset 0.000 deg

    [g56c] g56 c offset 0.000 deg

    [g57x] g57 x offset 0.000 mm

    [g57y] g57 y offset 0.000 mm

    [g57z] g57 z offset 0.000 mm

    [g57a] g57 a offset 0.000 deg

    [g57b] g57 b offset 0.000 deg

    [g57c] g57 c offset 0.000 deg

    [g58x] g58 x offset 0.000 mm

    [g58y] g58 y offset 0.000 mm

    [g58z] g58 z offset 0.000 mm

    [g58a] g58 a offset 0.000 deg

    [g58b] g58 b offset 0.000 deg

    [g58c] g58 c offset 0.000 deg

    [g59x] g59 x offset 0.000 mm

    [g59y] g59 y offset 0.000 mm

    [g59z] g59 z offset 0.000 mm

    [g59a] g59 a offset 0.000 deg

    [g59b] g59 b offset 0.000 deg

    [g59c] g59 c offset 0.000 deg

    [g92x] g92 x offset 0.000 mm

    [g92y] g92 y offset 0.000 mm

    [g92z] g92 z offset 0.000 mm

    [g92a] g92 a offset 0.000 deg

    [g92b] g92 b offset 0.000 deg

    [g92c] g92 c offset 0.000 deg

    [g28x] g28 x position 0.000 mm

    [g28y] g28 y position 0.000 mm

    [g28z] g28 z position 0.000 mm

    [g28a] g28 a position 0.000 deg

    [g28b] g28 b position 0.000 deg

    [g28c] g28 c position 0.000 deg

    [g30x] g30 x position 0.000 mm

    [g30y] g30 y position 0.000 mm

    [g30z] g30 z position 0.000 mm

    [g30a] g30 a position 0.000 deg

    [g30b] g30 b position 0.000 deg

    [g30c] g30 c position 0.000 deg

    November 30, 2014 at 1:04 pm #7062
    cmcgrath5035
    Moderator

    Have you tried fw 438.02 yet?

    Dumps much easier to read if you use this method:

    Nothing obvious in your current dump, but tweaks in the vicinity of FW 435.10 moving to 438.02 cured my hammer problem.

    November 30, 2014 at 1:09 pm #7063
    nccwarp9
    Member

    no, but will do so tomorrow.
    Sorry for long post with config but I dont use dropbox.

    tried to reduce jerk from 50.000 to 5.000 and the result is the same. Also, reduced steps to 2 and nothing.
    Only thing that seams to work is to increase from 0.9 to 1.8.

    Currently trying to find phase width for 57BYGHM201

    November 30, 2014 at 2:55 pm #7064
    cmcgrath5035
    Moderator

    Yeah, this forum tool is not particularly well suited to file attachments.

    Here is one thread that may provide some hints as to what the pulse widths were and are now. I believe Alden has said that 438.02 has a much pulsewidth as he can get from the hardware.

    There are some others; go to the forum level and search on ‘pulse width’

    In my experience, specs on steppers are hard to find (and in many cases harder to interpret.)

    December 1, 2014 at 12:40 pm #7070
    nccwarp9
    Member

    tried to update with 438.02 hex file but avrdude found a parsing error.
    Tried with 435.10 and it worked. but that does not fix the problem as that was the old firmware i had before

    December 1, 2014 at 6:19 pm #7072
    cmcgrath5035
    Moderator

    Tried to update with 438.02 hex file but avrdude found a parsing error.
    Tried with 435.10 and it worked. but that does not fix the problem as that was the old firmware i had before

    I have not experienced a ‘parsing error’, what OS are your running (Win, OSX, Liinux) ?
    If avrdude reported a parsing error, I doubt your original 435.10 was damaged by avrdude, but not sure.

    Perhaps tinyG build 438.02 did not download correctly; what is it’s size on disk?
    On Linux, my tingy-edge-438.02.hex is 322.9KB.

    December 3, 2014 at 3:07 am #7073
    nccwarp9
    Member

    manage to update to 438.02 and z now works. Had to reduce jerk rate as it was staling randomly. 5.000 looks like good value.

    Did not have time to test it thoroughly.

    Y steppers still get loud in some cases. Does anyone have any prefered settings for feed rate, velocity, etc. that work for 0.9 nema23 ?

    December 3, 2014 at 7:15 am #7074
    cmcgrath5035
    Moderator

    Progress!

    What type of machine do you have? Belt, Screw, ?
    When I see 35.9560 mm/rev, I assume XL belt machine.
    My Shapeoko with ACME Z moves 2.1170 mm/rev, I am just curious what you might have. I have NEMA17s
    Here is a link to a configuration set for my machine

    If your 1.25mm/rev is correct, your setup should have A LOT of extra torque available with a NEMA23 driving it, as you are moving only about 60% per rev when compared to mine.
    Do you perhaps have an alignment issue with your z axis?
    Or binding at some point(s) along travel?
    Really heavy spindle(assuming it is a spindle, or glue or laser)?

    Be aware that your motor assignment Y1,Y2,Z,X is different than mine, which is X,Y1,Z,Y2. Not an issue, just different.

    I assume you can see why I prefer to communicate via dropbox (or equivalent) for configs, G code, etc.
    If you plan on communicating with the form a lot, you should try one of these free cloud services.
    As an alternative, you can place your configs between code tags on the forum, still harder to review due to fixed window width.
    It would look something like this 

    [fb] firmware build 435.10
[fv] firmware version 0.97
[hp] hardware platform 1.00
[hv] hardware version 8.00
[id] TinyG ID 2U2971-YTV
    • This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by cmcgrath5035.
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